Ahlan Wa Sahlan

Ahlan Wa Sahlan

Thursday, February 7, 2008

"Pardon me, you're icky."

Its a very slow day at work so I'm going to blog about something that really bothers me.

As a hijabi, despite some of its setbacks, I find that non-Muslim men will respect me more than "Muslim" men will. I, however, use the label "Muslim" in a mainly loose and generally ethnic fashion.

Non-Muslim men* usually regard me with the same disquieted, nervous, respect that they regard nuns with: as a God-bound woman who will rap their knuckles for misbehaving. There is nothing overtly sexualized or needy in their gaze because, to them, I am relegated to an untouchable realm of femininity. This is exactly the reason for wearing the hijab, and during my closeted Muslim days when I would wear it in Arizona and take if off when I returned to Minnesota I would study the differences in how I was treated and looked at. Needless to say I got lots of free stuff from random males (coffee, sodas, etc) when I was not wearing the hijab, but had more doors held open for me and more quiet gaze lowering when I was.

Free stuff with leering gazes VS disquieted respect. Hmmm, tough choice (not).

But I find that "Muslim" men regard the hijab in total contrary fashion. For them it does not say, "please, respect me," it screams, "I'm Muslim and available for you to look and accost me at your leisure!"

Working here in the hospital we have a valet service that is made up of 75% Somali** men. I hesitate going past the front enterance because of the way I am watched as I walk, and I attempt to enter the meditation room at random times for prayer in order to be there when none of the valets are praying. One brother, who seems to be the quasi-imam, has possibly the best attitude towards me (in that his gaze does not hold some sort of sexuality) but he still thinks it is quite alright to come up to me and engage me in random conversation for no reason at all. I made sure to mention my husband at various points in his interrogation.

Since I took the hijab I cannot count the number of times that I have been approached by "Muslim" men to ask me if I was really Muslim. Uh no, I wear this scarf for the sunscreen effect...

"Oh," says he, "MashAllah sister, mashAllah. So... how did you come into Islam?"

"Blah blah blah shortened synopsis of story blah blah," as I edge away towards my car/door/any exit nearby.

"MashAllah, mashAllah! So sister, are you married?"

When I was not married I would answer that I was engaged and/or any other thing that would mean continuing to pester me would not in any way be productive for him. Some of them got the hint and took their leave, some of them were obtuse and continued to follow me wherever I was attempting to flee to.

Now that I am married I must admit that the big shiny ring on my finger has greatly decreased the number of men who approach me. But it hasn't ended.

The other day I was driving, to the mosque for Arabic class incidentally, when I realized that the taxi in the lane next to me had slowed down to drive by my side. I ventured a look to find the driver waving to me and smiling in a very suggestive "please write your phone number in lipstick on your window so I can call you" fashion. Again 75% of our taxi drivers are African Muslim men**, and in response I shook my head in disgust and flagrantly broke traffic laws by speeding up and leaving him in my dust. Sometimes a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.

Once, a few years ago, I was walking to the grocery store in Tempe, Az, and took a short-cut through the liquor store parking lot. While doing so a car that had been parked there, quite close to the front doors, came roaring around to cut me off. Leaning across the passenger seat to leer up at me through the window was a crusty old Arab praising my jilbab and khimar saying that the girls at home didn't take hijab as seriously as we converts did. He also then offered me a ride to wherever I was going.

I declined.

Really is it too much to ask that the "Muslim" men out there acknowledge the true purpose of hijab and lower their gaze? True Muslim men wouldn't look a hijabi in the eyes while talking to her let alone watch her walk down the hall or accost her in the streets.

One example of a true Muslim man: I was helping out at a bazaar at a Muslim commmunity picnic when a friend of mine came up to me with her husband to say hello. While I sat and talked with her he stood about 5 feet away watching his feet and patiently waiting until we finished talking (C you know I'm talking about your habib). He never spoke to me, or looked me over, or interrupted our conversation. Some non-Muslim women would consider this disrespect, as if he considered me too low beneath him to greet me. But they misunderstand the true intention of his actions, he in fact respected me so much as to consider himself disrespectful to force his attention on me. In this lays possibly the deepest misunderstanding of Islamic culture and the hierarchy of the sexes within it.

I wear hijab because I don't want men to look at my body or my beauty and desire me. I am, in totality, for my husband and my husband only. Thats why I wear hijab, and it pleases my God.

So, please, pardon me, but you're icky.

Fear Allah.

*Not all non-Muslim men respect hijab. There are the knuckle-dragging chauvinists who think hijab is a personal affront to their right to oggle women at any moment of any day. They are usually of the species that refer to Middle-Esterners/Muslims as towel-heads. I also once, while sitting at a bus stop innocently waiting for the bus, was approached by an Hindu Indian who, after telling me about his new wife and bragging about his great job, complemented my kohol and asked for my phone number.

I declined.

**Not all the "Muslim" men who accost me are Somali or of African descent, it was just in these particular cases that they happened to be. There are bad Muslims of every race.

Check out UmmAbdurahman's blog about the same phenomena.


luckyfatima said...

yep in some places you are gonna get harassed even if you only have "one eye to see the way" to see the way showing. especially in the places where it is a social rule to cover, or a law. i have also had experiences of being followed or ogled or cat-called by Arab guys in the US. While most non-Muslim men tend to get that nun-effect you mentioned. Most, not all. I must just be really sexy or sumthin.

Mona said...

I have had the same experience. Why is that? Why can most Non muslim men respect us and our wished not to be oggled?Do they secretly wishe their wives were more modest? Why is it that cat calling is freaking national pastime here? Sometimes I thinkt hat alot of musim men are depraved.

Molly said...

LF- Yes, I think its just cuz you're uber-hot. Now tell me more about yourself!?

Mona- Yes! I was going to also tell the story about being catcalled in Egypt. It really is the national pastime.
When I arrived in Alex from a cruise ship with my mom we were followed down the street by men yelling "ya habibi!!! ya habibi!!!"
And whenever I walked around Cairo with my best friend she would turn red at the things the men would call at us and I would be thankful that I didnt speak arabic.

UmmAbdurRahman said...

thanks for the advertisement molly :)

hmmmmmmmmm what is it with us gals who work in hospitals. there are two different classes of muslims, and i hate to say it this way but it's true. there are those educated and non educated. from my experience, the educated ones are much more respectful. I have to work very closely with surgery and about half of the surgeons are named ahmed or mohammed something or other. even one of our pathologists is from egypt and another female path is from palestine. they say salaam and move on. the conversation never moves past how are you and your family. they wish my husband salaam and move on. the muslims who work in food services or housekeeping have absolutely no shame. they will stare you up and down and follow you as you walk by. it's really sickening.

i have one thing to add about the free stuff from non-muslims. I visit that starbucks almost every night when I work and about 80% of the time I get my coffee for free or way cheaper than it's supposed to be. There is one man in particular who does it the most and I don't mind at all. OUr conversation never moves past basic pleasantries but he's da bomb. hahahahahahaha

Molly said...

UmmAbdurahman- Thats true, I guess education does make a big difference. The more educated you are, especially about religion, the more you understand the consequences of your actions.

As for the free stuff, rock on. lol. I should hit that starbucks up, its on my way to work.

Forsoothsayer said...

so the rest of us who aren't veiled do not merit the respect of men?

muslim men in the middle east (the kind i know best) know that veiled women are like other women - their appearance need not say much about their beliefs. they are well aware that they may have quite as much success with a veiled one as with an unveiled one, so they go ahead and accost them. it is unbelievably rare that i have encountered any man who was muslim enough to lower his gaze. i prefer, anyhow, that their gaze hit me in the eyes.

now, your case is in my opinion influenced greatly by the fact that you are a non-brown muslim. this is way you are so heavily accosted by sleazy muslims: basic inferiority entails that they find u more attractive than their countrywomen, pale skin being a hugely valued commodity here, while being at the same time likely to make a good wife because you're devout. also, they assume that a newly conerted muslimah will be looking for a muslim husband and therefore they're in with a fighting chance, compared with with non-muslim women.

i'll also tell you why else you encounter more respect from non-muslim men than muslim ones. it is generally because, the muslim world being an oppressive place (don't tell me it's not, societies here are conformist to the highest degree and the laws are insane) these muslims do not feel socially free NOT to be muslims, if you take my meaning. essentially, even if they are now abroad, they are bound by community codes which essentially entail enforced devotion. so they're repressed, not disciplined, and their behaviour is born out of sexual frustration and an innate lack of respect for women that is an inherent result of a segregated society. their western brothers, meanwhile, can get all the women they like and aren't raging lechers.

the true meaning of a religion lies in its practitioners. at no point throughout my 20 years of living in the middle east have i noted that it is part of normal Muslim man behaviour to avert their eyes anywhere. i know plenty of men who are good Muslims, i work with them and went to school with them (but of course not the short-galabeya-wearing bearded ones, as they don't talk to me) and these good Muslim moderates i am talking about treated me with the respect i desired without making me feel like my very being was an offence, which is how i would have felt if they had averted their eyes or not shaken my hand. you know very well that just because a man grants u the same respect he grants a fellow man does not mean he wants to bend you over a table.

sorry for the long comment. my point is, essentially, that until religious communities cease to be so repressive, in effect forcing people born into the religion to obey with a social lash, you will never see the tenets of your religion being practiced with anything more than superficiality.

Molly said...

"so the rest of us who aren't veiled do not merit the respect of men?"

In no place did I say that. I never even said that by removing my hijab when I returned to my home state I deserved less respect. Again, please leave your chip at the door.

I agree with you at men in the Middle East do understand that hijab is not necessarily a sign of true piousness. In Egypt among Muslim families it often is more culture than belief that makes girls take the hijab. I have a good friend who's little sister does not wear hijab, and life is a bit harder for her bcause of it. I was discussing life here in the US where every ounce of my culture rejects my right to wear hijab. I fight to wear it because I want to wear it. My life is not easier because I wear it. I am fine with interacting with men as long as it is with the proper respect- hijabbed or not hijabbed. I'd rather not be seen as a piece of meat on display, I'm sure you agree with me on that. Unlike you, I don't think I'd enjoy some fat scot saying its a shame he didn't have a go at you because youre such a bonny lass. Thats not respect, and yet you take it. I don't necessarily account your choices in life being the ones for me.

And yes it is absolutely because I am white that I was accosted as much as I was in egypt, and why I am here. Being a convert makes me up for grabs because I generally have the right to marry anyone no matter their skin color. Like you said, giving them a fair chance. It doesn't mean I want their attention.

You're absolutely right about the lecher part. Its sexual frustration I agree with you.

"treated me with the respect i desired without making me feel like my very being was an offence, which is how i would have felt if they had averted their eyes or not shaken my hand."

Why would you feel that way? I will agree with you that a lot of middle-eastern men might consider you with such a feeling, but this is not the kind of "respect" I'm talking abot. This is where you misunderstand the hierarchy of sex within Islam. When a man does not shake my hand I dont feel that its because I offend him by my existence its because he respects me and our religion. Anything beyond this can be attributed to you placing contrary emotions behind what was an honest gesture. Who are you to know whats in his mind?

Also I'd like you and everyone else to know that I don't consider the extremist views of inter-gender relations to be the best method of living. Especially not in these years.

But when I don't have any business with a man, I'd prefer he left me alone.

Working with men and interacting with them everyday is a different thing.

Being looked at, spoken to, consulted with, and taken into consideration are all interactions I was not talking about in this blog.

Being cornered on my way to class, or down to pray, or into a store- not exactly times I want to get chummy with a man in conversation.

Anonymous said...

awww thanks for saying that about my hubby hehe
I think if we were talking about something exciting to him such as ummm.... business or entrepreneurship, he might have been all up in our kool-aid heheheheh

Forsoothsayer said...

man, i wrote a super long comment and now it's gone. but i do want to repeat that how self righteous of you to assume that 1) you correctly understand the hierarchy of sex in islam and i don't, as if it has not been forced on me these 25 years; 2) that you didn't correctly read that post of mine regarding the scottish people. i took pleasure in the fact that the phrase bonny lass is actually in use - i had thought it was a long dead stereotype. i have a sense of humour, you see. however, said sense of humour will never come to terms with the fact that by avoiding looking me in the eyes or shaking my hand, i am being respected. oh, i know, he means well: but not only is it rude and awkward to reject an outstretched hand, by declining to do so he is inappropriately sexualising an innocent encounter, not the reverse. i would feel astonishingly insulted by my friend's husband stepping away while we talked: what is that saying, that he can't control his desires? that he can't talk to me without having sinful thoughts? no, not for me. i'd rather have them acknowledge by conversing with me that we can talk normally at a social gathering without sex, or thoughts of it, coming into the equation.

my point is it is these SELF SAME PRACTICES of segregation that give birth to the ridiculous sexual harassment and sexual assault that you and every other woman experiences in the middle east and amongst devout Muslims. if they could associate normally and be friends with women, they wouldn't be so lecherous, as u have conceded.

of course neither i nor any woman wants to be randomly accosted by a strange man i have no business with, and it is offensive that u would suggest that i do. but when you applaud that a friend's husband should leave you alone while u talk to his wife, a man you know and trust, how am i to understand that you are ok with speaking to men in general in day-to-day interactions? is this the way that you prefer that all men you don't absolutely have to speak to professionally behave?

Molly said...

Forsooth- Leaving the Scottish thing beind because while I have things I could say I don't think they would be helpful nor productive to our discussion. I do apologize if I offended you.
2) why am I self-righteous if I consider that you, a christian, may not understand the hierarchy of Islam? I don't think you do because growing up as you did you were exposed to Islam-as-culture rather than Islam-as-religion. I have fights with my husband, an Egypt-raised Muslim, about what is religion and what is culture with his interactions with me. Most Egyptians practice a culturized form of Islam which may or may not actually represent the true meaning of Islam. There are egyptian MUSLIMS I could look at and say that they don't understand it. I don't know why that self-righteous of me. Also know that I am not saying that I, myself, am and expert on it.

"if they could associate normally and be friends with women, they wouldn't be so lecherous, as u have conceded."

Look at the cultures in which men and women socialize on regular levels on a daily basis. Then look at the morality of said culture. This is a slippery slope into a discussion of conservative vs liberal customs and morals, one I don't particularly wish to discuss in such a tight space as a comment box, but for a matter of point: societies in which men and women interact in these ways are societies in which sexual morals are perverse and loose. Name me a society that has these views on intergender mingling that does not also have a high percentage of sex outside of marriage and with multiple partners.

its an issue of a conversative religion being forced on people who don't believe in it so they become frustrated.

I can't say I have any sort of idea of how to fix it.

What I was discussing was true Islam in a culture-free manner. Because amongst converts the Islam you will mostly find is one that is stripped of culture and adheres to the Sunnah and the laws of the Quran. Most times in the Middle East you find culture wrapped in a cloak of religion.

So can you tell me that in your daily interaction with muslims you are dealing with Islam-as-culture, or Islam-as-religion?

As for my friends husband, what would he have had to do with our discussion? Above in the anon comment my friend (the one who's husband I was referring to) admits that had we been talking about something besides clothes such as business or something else he could have interacted on he might have joined in the conversation. And when I am discussing something with my coworkers this is business-based and I wouldn't consider a men intruding to be offensive.

I was talking about when men approach me to know me on a personal level. Who are they? I want nothing to do with them.

Do you see the difference?

Mr.MM said...

Unfortunately there's wide gab between the Islam and Muslims or let's say some of them ,its not enough to be Muslim to be a good person you should be a good person to be a good Muslim ,and you must know that's test from Allah to you and to all in your situation and like our prophet-PBUH- the people most afflicted- as a test- are the Prophets and then the righteous; and the people are afflicted according to the amount of their faith.

Asmaa said...

okay I love your blog (this is the first time I've visited it for more than 2 seconds - blame having nothing to do at work at the moment).

But I love it. It's hilarious and your experiences and thoughts are very similar to mine. Lucky you have a shiny ring to ward off icky men. Maybe I should buy myself a fake one and/or wear a shirt that says "get the hell away from me." Or something :D

love it.

Molly said...

yay! I'm so glad you like it! I always feel honored when other great writers enjoy my blog. Peer support is wonderful. :D

Molly said...

ps love the shirt idea. lol

Sarah said...

Nicely put. and so freakin' true. and i must say, i'm still crackin up at:

"Uh no, I wear this scarf for the sunscreen effect... "

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh yea.

Yasmine said...

@ luckyfatima, you are sexy...he he he. @MOllY I can relate to the same thing sis. I had trouble understanding what hijab was when I first began to wear it, I noted that arab men stared at me more when I thought it would be contrary...so I stopped wearing it for those reasons but later on I decided that I wanted to distinguish myself as a muslim and began to wear it, Anyways, sis today

I was grocery shopping and this arab guy with his wife asked me if I was arab, I was like what the... (I was confused)and answered no that I am mexican and then began describing that I look arab like and that my eyes bla bla bla and asked me where I lived and so forth It was weird. I felt nervous for two reason first, his wife was there and two because my dad was nearby and he can get a bit frisky with men that approach me. But suprisingly he did not... so I wonder how that goes...don't know much about arab culture I am just a muslim girl thats it.

Anonymous said...

Maybe if you didn't wear makeup out then these men wouldn't come onto you:

"I...was approached by an Hindu Indian who...complemented my kohol and asked for my phone number."

Puh-leese! Makeup on a muslimah is a signal that you aren't so strict. Some men will even approach a woman in niqab, especially if she is wearing kohol/makeup.

If you really don't want these guys coming onto you then skip the makeup. Sorry, but this whole article reeks of, 'Oh! I'm so pureety that even in jilbab all these men are coming onto me!!'

If you are really sick of it, then stop with the makeup. Simple.

Anonymous said...

Haha...were you talking about Eisa? He is always so nice, never gawks or anything like that.

Anonymous said...

pshhh, and what's up with the person 2 comments above me? somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

Molly said...

and yes that was Eisa, he is way nice, and just a very good guy mashAllah. Carrie is lucky and she deserves a good husband. I can't wait to see their baby inshAllah.

Molly said...

Gee anon, I also don't cover my face with niqaab or my hands with gloves. I guess I deserve it.

Get over yourself, you give Islam a bad name. You probably argue that women in slinky dresses deserve to be raped.

And you obviously can't stand by your own comments as you had to leave that anonymously.

I'll leave it so people can see how pathetic and small-minded you are.

Thanks for reminding me that there are those kind of women still out there.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I guess truth hurts don't it? Actually, it's women like you that give us other Muslimahs who don't want attention and don't wear makeup a bad name (regardless of what they wear).

No woman deserves to be raped, you know I never said that; why are you making up stuff now? If you don't like attention, then don't wear makeup, simple. I also never said you have to cover your face or hands. Just don't wear makeup if you don't like the attention. You know I'm right, that's why you are so defensive. I'm pretty too (so people say, I don't think I am) and get Muslim and non-Muslims guys coming up to me, it is annoying when you don't do anything to encourage it. I do what I can and don't wear makeup, but I don't wear niqab.

Btw, do you include the other 'anonymous' when you said,'And you obviously can't stand by your own comments as you had to leave that anonymously.'

If you don't like anonymous comments then why do you allow them?

Maybe don't wear makeup around and then see if you can write the same entry.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Molly said...

I don't wear make up dear, I wear kohl.

I never wear foundation, shadow, or blush or even tinted lip gloss.

kohl is halal, and at the point that I was approached by the hindu I was in phoenix during the summer when the sun is really bright and with my very light colored eyes the kohl helped so the sun didn't not shine directly into my eyes.

which is why it is halal to be worn.

"Truth" doesn't hurt because I haven't done a single thing to be haraam.

I don't wear any kind of perfume at all.

You're contentious and catty and are a bad example of a Muslimah.

And I allow anon comments because there are plenty of my friends who comment anonymously but sign their names, my husband being one of them.

You're obviously scared and so you don't put your name or your blog (if you have one).

I think that makes you look weak.

Feel however you want, but I'm just pointing out that what you wrote makes you look like a small-minded extremist who think women in bright colors cause fitnah.

Crawl back into your hole or learn how to open your mind.

Or come up with an arguement less stale.

Muslimeen For Islam said...

Actually, just a small reply to anonymous - I don't wear makeup, and not even kohl all the time, and I still get hit on... regardless of if I'm wearing kohl or not. You mentioned it yourself, even those in niqab get hit on, even if there is no kohl on.

Besides, wearing kohl for both men and women is sunnah, as long as it is not the same as eyeliner, very showy or above the eyelid.

The Qur'an says to both men and women to "LOWER THEIR GAZE" and so I think, regardless of what a person is wearing, it is entirely up to you to gaurd your own actions. Your eyes and your sight will be judged, and the person wearing unmodestly will be judged accordingly. The first look is for you, the second is against you. This is because your eyes will naturally go to something yes, but you gaurd your actions and sight.

So for a guy to come up and hit on a woman, it's extremely disgusting and I say "LOWER YOUR GAZE."

Muslimeen For Islam said...

And I think that this just proves the HONOR a woman gets in practicing hijab. Alhamdulilah for ISLAM.

Anonymous said...

I, too, get men trying to pick me up, even without makeup, so why would I start wearing kohol when I know that would only encourage them?

"You're contentious and catty and are a bad example of a Muslimah...
what you wrote makes you look like a small-minded extremist who think women in bright colors cause fitnah...Crawl back into your hole or learn how to open your mind."

She shows her true colors.

Kohol is sunnah for men and also for women, but only if she wears it so non-mahrems can't see it on her. If you are going to wear makeup (kohol is make-up, dear, it is used to beautify), you need to either wear it in the house only or cover it up when you wear it around non-mahrem men.

Again, if guys coming on to you really does bother you so much, then don't wear make-up/kohol. I don't recall mentioning anything about bright colored clothing. Maybe you are afraid you won't get as many looks from guys if you don't wear it? Why don't you ask your imam about it. Maybe I am wrong. If I am I will apologise to you for butting in.

Just because I advised you not to wear makeup when you go out, doesn't make me an extremist, people might be saying that about you because you wear hijab and pray. You just don't like what I'm saying so you are calling me these things. It reflects badly on you, not on me, dear.

You know what I'm saying is true (about the kohol) otherwise you wouldn't get so defensive.

Anonymous said...

Scared of what, that you know my name? Is that a joke? No, I don't have a blog, but I will be more than happy to give you my phone number if you'd like and you can ring me and talk to me about it on the phone if that is what you wish.

Molly said...

I'm not going to respond because its not going anywhere.

I responded badly because you approached it rudely.

But, whatever.

You have your opinions, I have mine.

I just ask that you approach my blog with respect as I would and do approach anyone elses.

I'll leave your comments up on this one because I think everyone should get equal representation even if I don't agree.

However if you approach my blog with this type of attack and disrespect in the future I will delete them.

I'm fine with you having opposing ideas, but I demand that you outline them respectfully.

Muslimeen For Islam said...

Anonymous: You're not an extremist for giving your opinion. However, to label someone in a manner that is offensive is a bit extreme.

I will check up on the exact research and documentation about Kohl in Islam and post it.

I personally don't wear kohl, makeup or perfume. BUT then what do you do if you don't put on kohl and still get hit on?

Anonymous said...

"I personally don't wear kohl, makeup or perfume. BUT then what do you do if you don't put on kohl and still get hit on?"

What are you insinuating here? I'm a little offended by your question as I already said I don't wear makeup/kohol. I don't wear perfume either. I wear drab colored abaya and scarf (even though any color is halal as far as the sunnah goes). I have done what is reasonable to stop any fitnah. All I can say is, alhamdulillah, I seem to have been blessed physically by Allah. I guess the only next step is niqab, is that what you're suggesting I do; that because I don't wear niqab that I'm inviting attention? Hmmmm, wouldn't that be 'extreme' to suggest to somebody to wear niqab, as many scholars say that to cover everything but hands and face is acceptable?

Molly said...

"All I can say is, alhamdulillah, I seem to have been blessed physically by Allah."

Oh wait, now who's 'Oh! I'm so pureety that even in jilbab all these men are coming onto me!!'

You just proved my point, men will do it no matter what.

Thanks, I appreciate your help. :D

Muslimeen For Islam said...

Why are you being so defensive? Sister, I never mentioned anything directly to you. My reference to the word "you" is general. To anyone. If it makes you feel any better, I could rephrase the question to say:

BUT then what should one do if one doesn't put on kohl and still gets hit on?

Is that better?

Sister, if you remember, I specifically am making mention that you have a right to state your opinion. I only said I thought it was a bit extreme to be offensive.

Also, why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth that I never said based on your OWN assumptions? I never even mildly suggested niqab. Or even abaya. Or any way of how you should dress. I do not believe niqab is fard and have showed reference in my works from both Qur'an and Hadith.

Sister, to be honest, I think I should be offended for your false accusations and interpretations of my words, considering that even though I thought it extreme to offend others by saying "slutty muslimah," I still defended your right to give your opinion.

Anonymous said...

That's OK, Muslimeen for Islam, the ability to effectively communicate is often something you have to be taught, but if english is your second language, you are doing really well, mashallah, I'm sorry for misunderstanding you - the way you guys are attacking me, I think I was justified to think that you were asking it of me, sorry again. Your rephrasing definitely clarifies.

It is true that some men will go for anything female that moves, so maybe I fall under that category, and that explains the interest from men; I would rather think that than be proud (in the haram sense of the word). I really don't care, I just do what is reasonable to avoid men finding me too attractive (i.e. not wear makeup, wear loose abaya and scarf, no perfume or high heels, etc).

Molly, I thought I was asked a direct question, (Muslimeen for Islam did not communicate her thoughts effectively), therefore I wished to eliminate any suspicion about my actions around men, the way M for I asked sounded like to me like she was asking about how I act around men, if it is not my wearing of makeup; I did not, however, write a whole blog entry about me being 'pureety' like you did :D

I did not "prove" your point, Molly, you cannot make an unbiased opinion on this matter until you stop wearing makeup/kohol. Stop wearing kohol in front of non-mahrem men, I think you'll find the amount of men who hit on you, greatly reduced. Not to say that you might not be 'purteey', but the reality is that you are more likely to be found attractive by men when wearing kohol/makeup; and wearing it is perceived (rightly or wrongly) by men as a signal that you're after some action as opposed to being "marriage material". This is just how some men think, I do not say that women wearing makeup/short skirts/bikins etc deserve to be treated with anything less that full respect. We can't change how people/men think in regards to this, it is just the way things are.

Muslimeen for Islam, how did you go finding out the "exact research and documentation about Kohl in Islam"? I will be interested to know your findings.

It is useless to argue back and forth Molly, as you seem to think it is OK to beautify yourself when you are around non-mahrem men and I do not. Obviously, I am wasting your time - I can see from the quick responses from both of you that you seem to be hanging by here waiting for me to respond.

Assalaam alaikum.

Molly said...

awwww, man you're full of yourself. In actuality she and I were chatting online and I have a notification in my email.

but its nice that you think you matter enough.

And sure you don't beautify yourself, according to you Allah blessed you enough all on your lonesome.

Does your ego walk into a room ahead of you or follow behind?

I posted a blog about my experiences not in an egotistic manner, but in a truthful narrative of what I've experienced.

You assumed that I always wore kohl because I mentioned it at one point, however many of the other times- like when I was walking to the grocery and was stopped- or approached on campus- I was not.

So, who are you? And to come on here with your "holier than thou" attitude, and uncomfirmed assumptions, and leave such sarcastic remarks really is uncalled for.

And such an attitude, the kind that makes a lot of converts hate going to the mosque because of these "well you just must be a bad muslim" attitudes from women such as you.

It makes me sick.

And you really are assumptive and make yourself look like an ass beause of it.

Muslimeen for Islam was born in the United States and occasionally speaks better English than I even do. For you to assume somehow from her comment- and I don't even know where you pulled that out of- that English is not her first language just shows how pitiable unable to understand nuances you are.

And thats what makes your attitude so much harder to take.

You are one of the levels of women that makes me understand why there are more of us in the hellfires.

If you're happy with your future home, I'll leave you to it. But in the future I hope you'll consider approaching someone with a softer consideration.

Assuming you're capable of it.

Muslimeen For Islam said...

Assalamu Alaikom

Like I said sister, it is one thing to state your opinion, and another to make rude assumptions and offensive comments.

Nevertheless, I STILL found it reasonable to say maybe I miscommunicated and rephrased what I wanted to say. And pardon me if that was the case (to anyone) for everyone makes errors in communication or grammar.

And may I remind you, I also defended your right to opinion so in no way was I trying to start a personal attack on you. You decided to put words into my mouth that I never suggested or said from your own assumptions and labeled it as an attack on you personally. My only hint of an "attack" might be for me to say I disagreed with you using offensive "name calling."

I feel you are the one attacking my personal life now actually, for you do not know me or know anything about my personal life or dawah work to suggest that English be my second language. I happen to pride myself in having TAUGHT Writing/English courses and tutored for ESL students.

If your assumption about English being my second language came from my reference to the word "you" in my question, I ask that you look up English grammar in dialogue. Last I heard, this was a public blog, not a one on one discussion, so for me to use the word "you" I was directing to anyone, not just yourself. But using a thesaurus we can put "one" instead of "you" to direct an audience.

The reason I never posted quick enough about the ruling on Kohl is because I do not have enough time to nit-pick on blogs. I have my own dawah business, work, and personal life to tend to. However I did not forget.

I am not a scholar, BUT from what I know (but still am getting actual quoted evidence) is that Kohl is sunnah for both women and men. HOWEVER for women, they must only wear it around other women or non-mahram men. For men, they may use it in public but to adhere to the actual sunnah, they are to put it on the inner, bottom lid of the eye and kohl the right eye 3 times, and the left eye 2 times. Then you have other scholars who have said that it is ok as long as the woman uses natural kohl powder for healing purposes, and only uses it inside the inner, bottom eyelid as well.

I am trying to receive information from Dr. Ahmed Hisham from Cairo Al-Azhar Dawah Institute, but have not yet received his full input. I will post once I receive it.